Burning Questions From A Burning Newbie

[Jim Lad]

I've owned a Hummy for eighteen months or so. Up to now I've used it only for timeshifting.

Recently my daughter asked me whether I could record a movie for her and put it onto a DVD, so I thought I'd have a go, via son_t's modification and phew's software. The transfer to my laptop was problem-free, as was the removal of commercials (using the VideoRedo trial version) and I ended up with the cleaned-up movie on my laptop's HD as a single 1.6GB .MPG file. I didn't try any fancy tricks such as defining separate chapters or anything like that.

At that point I realised that I hadn't a clue what to do next, and I couldn't get my head around any of the relevant-sounding information in the FAQs and forum postings, so I took a deep breath and had a bash, using an OEM version of Nero 6 that came with my Philips external DVD burner. I'm not sure what I did exactly, but after rooting around in Nero StartSmart (and being redirected to Nero Vision Express because at one point Nero said it wouldn't put an MPG file into the VIDEO_TS folder) I ended up with a DVD that plays OK on my Philips DVD player and on my daughter's Sony player.

So far so good, but the reason for my post is the fact that (a) before burning the disk, Nero spent around 90 minutes (i.e. the approximate duration of the film) transcoding the MPG file, and (b) after I'd noticed by accident that the DVD appeared to be almost full, Windows Explorer showed that the disk actually has three identically-sized .VOB files of just over 1GB apiece, plus a fourth one which is 0.9GB and a few other small files such as VIDEO_TS.VOB, VIDEO_TS.IFO, VIDEO_TS.BUP, etc.

My questions are as follows:

1. In my ignorance I had expected simply to dump the .MPG file onto the DVD — why did Nero transcode it?

2. Why have I apparently got four copies of the big .VOB file (three of them identical) on the DVD?

3. I seem to have got an acceptable result, but surely there has to be another (i.e.better) way? What did I do wrong?

From the above questions it shouldn't be too difficult to deduce that I'm no expert, so any advice in words of one syllable would be sincerely appreciated.

P.S. I've just found the thread about TStoDVD and I'm tempted to try it. However, demultiplexing and suchlike are total mysteries to me and I fear I may be about to leap in over my head here. Also would someone kindly point me towards a list of recommended freeware or shareware? I expect to be going from Hummy to DVD only rarely and so I really don't fancy buying Nero 7 and VideoRedo.

TIA

Jim

[rabid]

I use all free applications for the process that I use (to create the IFO/VOB files to burn): ProjectX (http://www.oozoon.de/main_en.html): to demux the TS file. Cuttermaran (http://www.cuttermaran.de/): to edit the video and audio streams (crop beginning and end, cut adverts). IFOEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/IfoEdit): to create the IFO/VOB files from the video and audio streams.It appears that I could use ProjectX to do the editing that I do with Cuttermaran, but I find Cuttermaran's editing features a lot more useable than ProjectX.

You can find guides for every application by using Google. I like this setup as I do not lose any quality by re-encoding, and Cuttermaran provides nice, easy editing functionality.

[stav2465]

Hi. This is my very first post on this forum.
I got my hummy on Saturday and Im already in love with it.
As to your question. I already own a dvd recorder which I bought on eBay for £28. It is a Funai and I believe it is the cheapest on eBay at the moment.
Don't be put off by the name. I bought the previous model from Argos last year for around £80 which I have had no problems with and it now resides in my bedroom hooked up to my second Freeview box.

Anyway, back to your question. All you have to do to set up is connect one scart on the dvd recorder to the vcr scart on your hummy, and connect the second scart on the dvd recorder to the av2 scart on the tv and bobs your uncle.
You can only edit out the adverts etc on rewritable dvds, but I believe these discs can be finalised in the same way as dvd-r's so that they can be played on other dvd players, although I haven't had chance to try this yet.

This could certainly be a relatively low cost solution to your problem. I know from past experience that when you start converting files into different formats, apart from being very time consuming, you are not guaranteed to get a final product with no glitches, freezes and the worst thing - the speech being out of sinc!
I hope this helps you and would be interested to know what you think of my suggestion.

STAV

I've owned a Hummy for eighteen months or so. Up to now I've used it only for timeshifting.

Recently my daughter asked me whether I could record a movie for her and put it onto a DVD, so I thought I'd have a go, via son_t's modification and phew's software. The transfer to my laptop was problem-free, as was the removal of commercials (using the VideoRedo trial version) and I ended up with the cleaned-up movie on my laptop's HD as a single 1.6GB .MPG file. I didn't try any fancy tricks such as defining separate chapters or anything like that.

At that point I realised that I hadn't a clue what to do next, and I couldn't get my head around any of the relevant-sounding information in the FAQs and forum postings, so I took a deep breath and had a bash, using an OEM version of Nero 6 that came with my Philips external DVD burner. I'm not sure what I did exactly, but after rooting around in Nero StartSmart (and being redirected to Nero Vision Express because at one point Nero said it wouldn't put an MPG file into the VIDEO_TS folder) I ended up with a DVD that plays OK on my Philips DVD player and on my daughter's Sony player.

So far so good, but the reason for my post is the fact that (a) before burning the disk, Nero spent around 90 minutes (i.e. the approximate duration of the film) transcoding the MPG file, and (http://www.hummy.org.uk/invison/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif after I'd noticed by accident that the DVD appeared to be almost full, Windows Explorer showed that the disk actually has three identically-sized .VOB files of just over 1GB apiece, plus a fourth one which is 0.9GB and a few other small files such as VIDEO_TS.VOB, VIDEO_TS.IFO, VIDEO_TS.BUP, etc.

My questions are as follows:

1. In my ignorance I had expected simply to dump the .MPG file onto the DVD — why did Nero transcode it?

2. Why have I apparently got four copies of the big .VOB file (three of them identical) on the DVD?

3. I seem to have got an acceptable result, but surely there has to be another (i.e.better) way? What did I do wrong?

From the above questions it shouldn't be too difficult to deduce that I'm no expert, so any advice in words of one syllable would be sincerely appreciated.

P.S. I've just found the thread about TStoDVD and I'm tempted to try it. However, demultiplexing and suchlike are total mysteries to me and I fear I may be about to leap in over my head here. Also would someone kindly point me towards a list of recommended freeware or shareware? I expect to be going from Hummy to DVD only rarely and so I really don't fancy buying Nero 7 and VideoRedo.

TIA

Jim[/b]

[gomezz]

As to your question. I already own a dvd recorder which I bought on eBay for £28. It is a Funai and I believe it is the cheapest on eBay at the moment.[/b]
There was a flood of people reporting problems with Funai kit some time ago. One can hope they have now sorted them out.

[Jim Lad]

I use all free applications for the process that I use (to create the IFO/VOB files to burn): ProjectX (http://www.oozoon.de/main_en.html): to demux the TS file. Cuttermaran (http://www.cuttermaran.de/): to edit the video and audio streams (crop beginning and end, cut adverts). IFOEdit (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/IfoEdit): to create the IFO/VOB files from the video and audio streams.It appears that I could use ProjectX to do the editing that I do with Cuttermaran, but I find Cuttermaran's editing features a lot more useable than ProjectX.

You can find guides for every application by using Google. I like this setup as I do not lose any quality by re-encoding, and Cuttermaran provides nice, easy editing functionality.[/b]

Rabid and stav2465:
Many thanks for your prompt replies, which must have arrived after I'd gone offline to get an early night.

Rabid: I'll certainly try out your freeware suggestions. I suspect there'll be something of a learning curve, especially where demuxing the video and audio streams are concerned, but I'll have a go. Would IFOEdit take approx. 90 minutes to create IFO/VOB files for a 90-minute movie, as Nero did? And has it ever presented you with 3 x identical .VOB files plus one slightly smaller one, as Nero did?

stav2465: Thanks for your suggestion. I haven't yet got my head round it altogether but I'll keep trying. I already have a Panasonic DMR-E85H HD/DVD video recorder but haven't used it since I got the Hummy. I do very little archiving but would probably do more if I had an idiot-proof way of doing everything via the Hummy.

Thanks again to you both. I'll keep trying.

[rabid]

Rabid: I'll certainly try out your freeware suggestions. I suspect there'll be something of a learning curve, especially where demuxing the video and audio streams are concerned, but I'll have a go. Would IFOEdit take approx. 90 minutes to create IFO/VOB files for a 90-minute movie, as Nero did? And has it ever presented you with 3 x identical .VOB files plus one slightly smaller one, as Nero did?[/b]No. The beauty of using IFOEdit (and presumably others) is that it just dumps the MPEG2 data in the m2v (video) and mp2 (audio) into the VOB container - no re-encoding. Therefore, the video quality is exactly the same as what the Hummy recorded.

IFOEdit takes around 5 minutes to create the DVD (IFO/VOB) files from the m2v and mp2 files on my laptop. That's purely as it's having to write a few GB of data, not because it is doing any serious processing.

ProjectX looks like a nightmare, but as I only use it to demux, now I have it set up, I can basically open the ts file, click a button ("QuickStart"), and off it goes. In Cuttermaran I simply point it to the m2v that ProjectX created and it loads both the video and audio. It has nice controls to navigate the movie timeline, and simple buttons to mark and cut. It is going to take a bit of effort on your part, and head-banging, but it's very rewarding, and the results are superb.

Cuttermaran has a wiki (http://wiki.cuttermaran.de/) that should help. Here's a link (http://forum.videohelp.com/topic120013.html) detailing the simple process of authoring with IFOEdit.

[stav2465]

You're welcome.
Trust me mate, when it comes to idiot proof Im the biggest idiot out there. Until a few weeks ago when I was trying to get my parents freeview box, dvd player, vhs recorder and tv to work together in harmony, I didn't even understand what the AV button on the tv was all about. When it all clicked in my brain I felt like a complete div!
It was on a par with the groundbreaking moment in 1998 when, having owned my first pc for over a month, the concept of 'WINDOWS' suddenly clicked in my head and everything became as clear as day.

So back to your problem with creating a dvd. All you have to do is tune your dvd player to your hummy. The automatic tuning facility on the dvd recorder will do it for you (just make sure the hummy is switched on and tuned to one of the non analogue channels so you know when its found the correct channel) then press play on the hummy and record on the dvd recorder and bobs your uncle. You could even set the timer on the dvd recorder to ensure you get the best possible recording quality and not get a long blank section at the end of the recording.

Unless you really enjoy messing about with video editing software (I used to until I got more duff discs than good ones - Nero is good but not that good if you know what I mean), trust me, this really is THE idiot proof way of creating a dvd.

STAV

Rabid and stav2465:
Many thanks for your prompt replies, which must have arrived after I'd gone offline to get an early night.

Rabid: I'll certainly try out your freeware suggestions. I suspect there'll be something of a learning curve, especially where demuxing the video and audio streams are concerned, but I'll have a go. Would IFOEdit take approx. 90 minutes to create IFO/VOB files for a 90-minute movie, as Nero did? And has it ever presented you with 3 x identical .VOB files plus one slightly smaller one, as Nero did?

stav2465: Thanks for your suggestion. I haven't yet got my head round it altogether but I'll keep trying. I already have a Panasonic DMR-E85H HD/DVD video recorder but haven't used it since I got the Hummy. I do very little archiving but would probably do more if I had an idiot-proof way of doing everything via the Hummy.

Thanks again to you both. I'll keep trying.[/b]

[Jim Lad]

Many thanks Rabid:. That's exactly the sort of basic information I need. I'll have a go and report back, but it's bound to take a while so it won't be this week...

Sincere thanks to you too stav2465. I assume your method will give me a DVD with the programme or movie exactly as broadcast, i.e. complete with commercials where applicable. It sounds like an ideal solution for BBC programmes, but I'm going to look at Rabid's method as well because I need to lose the commercials — can't abide the $@#*&% things...


Thanks again chaps. Advice much appreciated

[stav2465]

No probs

STAV

Many thanks Rabid:. That's exactly the sort of basic information I need. I'll have a go and report back, but it's bound to take a while so it won't be this week...

Sincere thanks to you too stav2465. I assume your method will give me a DVD with the programme or movie exactly as broadcast, i.e. complete with commercials where applicable. It sounds like an ideal solution for BBC programmes, but I'm going to look at Rabid's method as well because I need to lose the commercials — can't abide the $@#*&% things...
Thanks again chaps. Advice much appreciated[/b]

[danco]

Nobody seems to have answered the question about the "identical" VOB files.

They aren't identical. For some good reason (possibly because old versions of Windows had problems with files over 4 Gb) most encoders will split a movie into a number of VOBs, each of size 1 Gb except for the last one.

[BizMark]

Nobody seems to have answered the question about the "identical" VOB files.

They aren't identical. For some good reason (possibly because old versions of Windows had problems with files over 4 Gb) most encoders will split a movie into a number of VOBs, each of size 1 Gb except for the last one.[/b]

And nobody answered the question about recording straight to a DVD Recorder - to edit out the adverts, simply hit 'Pause' when they start, and again when they end!!! Alternatively, don't bother and trim them out aftewards (most, if not all, DVD Recorders allow you to set chapter marks, so you can enclose an ad break with chapter marks, then set the chapter with the ad in it to 'hidden').

[Jim Lad]

Danco and BizMark:

All noted. Many thanks.

Regards
Jim